Episode 024: Brett Sikora and Steven Rosado

Joel Epstein:
Good morning everyone and welcome to another edition of the Big Joel Show. Today, I have two people in the studio with me which is cool and fun, two young agents making all kinds of waves. Real estate agents from the great state of New Jersey. I have Brett Sikora, and Steve Rosado. Both of these guys are with EXP Realty. I'll let them tell a little bit of their story, how they got where they got, and how old they are themselves. But, it's exciting. We normally don't do this. I normally do a one on one interview. But these guys work very closely together, even though they run separate businesses. So we thought it would be fun, and we'd be able to provide you guys a lot of value.

Joel Epstein:
As you know, those of you that listen to me all the time, I'm constantly campaigning about getting younger people into real estate. Because to be perfectly honest, there are just a bunch of old people. And in the loan business as well. And I really think that it's an incredible career. I was just in Boise, Idaho a couple of days ago and I was talking to everyone, and I'm like, "You guys have the greatest job ever." And by the way, your competition is pretty lazy. So, if you come in and you really work, you could really make some money. So Brett, I'll start with you over here to my left. Brett Sikora. Brett closed 57 million in production last 12 months. Like I said, these guys are really, would you call it North New Jersey? Is really your-

Brett Sikora:
Yeah, we're a suburb of New York City. So, Hoboken, Jersey City.

Joel Epstein:
Okay. So you're-

Brett Sikora:
We hug a one hour radius outside.

Joel Epstein:
You're right up there.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
So, Brett, tell everyone how old you are. When you got into real estate, when you started selling real estate. Just a little bit of your story.

Brett Sikora:
So, yeah, I'm 32 years old. I think of myself as a dinosaur in the business now. Because I got licensed in June of 07, which if anybody ever followed history, that wasn't the best time to get a real estate license. But I made I through that, and actually failed once. Went into car sales. So, actually the real estate thing did not work for me. And then I had to come back into it a second time around, and I got it going the second time.

Joel Epstein:
Awesome. And how long have you been with EXP, your current employer?

Brett Sikora:
So, we switched over February 4th of 2019. So we're coming up on 90 days.

Joel Epstein:
Where did you guys come from?

Brett Sikora:
We were Keller Williams for-

Joel Epstein:
How long?

Brett Sikora:
Close to four years.

Joel Epstein:
That's a good training ground, correct?

Brett Sikora:
Totally.

Joel Epstein:
And then across from me, I have Steve Rosado. Steve, tell us how old you are, how long you've been in real estate. Talk to me.

Steven Rosado:
36. So if you're a dinosaur, I don't know what I am. I'm older than you. So, 36. I got into it at an equally bad time. 2009, when everybody was getting out of it I was getting into it. And also had some car sales background before that, too. So always have been in sales. But, yeah. I started working directly across from Brett. We started working together, and [crosstalk 00:03:12]

Joel Epstein:
How long have you guys worked at the same place? For a long time?

Steven Rosado:
Yeah. I think we were three years working literally directly across from one another. That was at Gotham.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah, we were at a mom and pop for a while. I mean, literally these were our desks. We were directly across. So I had to stare at him every day-

Joel Epstein:
At least that'll get you out of the office doing what you're supposed to be doing, right?

Brett Sikora:
Yeah, exactly.

Joel Epstein:
Exactly.

Steven Rosado:
It took us two and a half years to realize we could just turn the desk the other way and we didn't have to stare at each other.

Joel Epstein:
Exactly.

Steven Rosado:
But, yeah. Obviously, we became best friends working there, and then he left. And I was still sitting there. And then I went to the same place as him again.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah. So we went from that mom and pop, small move. And then we actually went to the biggest mom and pop in the area that really dominated. And we learned a ton there. There was a ton of value. And people talk about culture, they had it. They were dialed in. And they still have a great agent retention where they're at, and it definitely shows. And then from there, that's when Steve met back up with us, and then we all jumped to Keller Williams together.

Joel Epstein:
Awesome. So you guys both got into real estate at what I would call fairly young age. Directly out of college, whether you went to college or not, doesn't really matter. But at a young age. Which is really cool. What would you, just to jump off, Brett you can go first, why should a young person get into real estate right now? And if they do, what are some of the first things they should do? And then Steve could go. And one of the big questions today, all the time, all day long is technology.

Joel Epstein:
And I was in a room full of agents last week, and I will be in two days in Jacksonville. And they're all going to be freak shows about technology. And then I keep telling them, I'm like, "Listen. If you own the customer, if the customer loves you, you don't have to worry about it. It's just an enhancement." They can literally at 11 o'clock at night, take a whole bottle of chardonnay and slam it in bunny slippers looking at 50 different houses, and get called by 50 different agents, and get up in the morning and call you.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
So, and they just look at me, I'm like, "Uh-huh (affirmative)." That's the way it works. That overcomes everything. There's nothing that's going to reach through the phone and make them that person's client.

Brett Sikora:
Right.

Joel Epstein:
That's a different relationship thing. But just a couple of things and then I'll let Steve go. Why? Why would you tell someone to get into this business right now?

Brett Sikora:
Well, for us, a lot of people talk about the flexibility and earning potential. Obviously, as you know, talking to realtors all the time, the flexibility starts to go out the window the busier you get, until you set up certain systems. But that said, you can still sell call it 20 homes a year in my opinion, fairly easily live a pretty nice lifestyle and still take a decent amount of time off, and you're still, at least in our area with our average price point, you're earning 200, 250 a year.

Joel Epstein:
So, not to cut you off. Did everyone hear that? He said you could sell 20 houses pretty easily. So NAR, average is 7.1 houses a year.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
Okay? That's average.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
That's your competition. Seven. Seven is a month. What are you doing for the rest of the time, really? But Brett just said you could sell 20 houses a year, pretty easily. Which, is an incredible career, correct? I don't care if you're in Pittsburgh and your average sale price is 300000. Not 600. It doesn't matter.

Brett Sikora:
And to take it, what you would do for a new agent, or what we like to do, is we'll say, "Pull your cell phone out. Call every single person and tell them that you're a real estate agent. And then report back to me. And you have 48 hours to do it." And to go back to the militant state of mind, they'll just do it. So certain people will do that. And certain people will just shut down right there. And the person that's going to do that, that's who we want. You're going to make money in this business.

Joel Epstein:
Okay, so would you say that if you approach this business like it's a business, one of the biggest reasons agents fail is A, they don't want any new best friends. Meaning, they don't want any new referral sources. And B, they have no plan. When you're an agent, Steve, maybe you can touch on this, there's no plan. They tell you there's a plan? They'll tell you there's a plan at every major broker. Come work here, hang your license here. We're going to do this, this. They usually last between 30 and about 37 days for most agents. And then the agents are like this, "What?" And they're in your doorway, "Hey, Brett. Got a second? How do I?" "Well did you ask the manager?" "They're not here." Or whatever. They're gone.

Steven Rosado:
Totally.

Joel Epstein:
So talk to me a little bit about that.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah. It's actually perfect what plays into both of our teams, even though we're separate. We work the law of numbers, we put together business plans. And like you said, not many people come into this business with an actual plan. And actually treat it like a business. And when you look at it that way, and you're able to assemble and build around what you're good at, your strengths, your weaknesses, and then have a team leader or a coach help you hold yourself accountable. That's the key in this game.

Joel Epstein:
Because there's no boss. That's where people just fail. Where were you?

Steven Rosado:
Exactly.

Joel Epstein:
Is that Spongebob I hear in the background? Turn that off. Why are you home? It's 10 AM. When I have agents that will tell me, this is hilarious, "Well Joel, I don't have anything to do." I'm like, "Okay, let me tell you a secret. You're supposed to be a real estate expert. Get in your car and burn a tank of gas, and just drive around." "What do you mean drive around?" "Drive around." When someone says, "I live at 123 Main St. you need to know where that is." I don't mean like 2700 miles away in Topeka, I mean if someone tells you where they live in Northern New Jersey, or in your area, and you don't know where that house is, shame on you, correct?

Steven Rosado:
Yeah, totally.

Joel Epstein:
Literally, shame on you. What do you mean you don't know where that house is?

Steven Rosado:
Absolutely.

Joel Epstein:
You're supposed to be an expert. So they're like, "Wait, what? You just want me to drive around?" I'm like, "Yeah. Just drive around."

Steven Rosado:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
And they look at me like I'm insane.

Steven Rosado:
And know what's going on, too. Have an idea of some of the new businesses that are coming in. I'm somewhat obsessed with construction maps and seeing what's coming to the area, those types of things as well. Be a specialist of your area. And I find it exciting, too. I like to see these new projects coming up and know about them.

Joel Epstein:
So, let's talk buy side first. Let's talk about buyers for a minute. I like to get tactical, because my viewers love this. So buy sides. What do you do on the buy side? Why are you special? Why do people want to come back? Why do people want to refer their friends to Brett to buy a house? Not necessarily sell, we're going to go to listing in a second.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
What do you do? Why do people want to come back? What do you do that's cool that's different? What do you do better than everyone else?

Brett Sikora:
Honestly, I think a big thing for us is obviously the follow up is going to be a huge part of that, and making sure that we're in direct communication. We try to solve their problems before they actually know they even have a problem. So that's important to us. But a big thing that we do is focused on the book The Go Giver. I don't know if you ever read that. But we have zero attachment to whether or not they're going to purchase through us. And we try to take that out. So we can actually give them real advice where, look, don't buy this property.

Brett Sikora:
Or if this sale dies, I'm okay. We'll go figure something else. Or if it makes more sense for you to continue to rent based on what your goals are, then rent. And that's fine. And I think that people can really sense that in us. And I try to have the whole team communicate that to the clients. And that's what gives somebody an enjoyable experience. And what you're talking about this, leading with value, the days of the NLP hard closes, people don't like that done to them anymore. They don't react well to it. If I could show you how this could happen, and this, that makes sense right?

Joel Epstein:
Right.

Brett Sikora:
People don't want structured sentences, they want real people that aren't wordsmithing a conversation.

Joel Epstein:
And I'm going to help you out. Nobody ever wanted that. Sorry, you people that teach that. You can come here and we can fight. I'm letting you know that you can't sell anything to anyone. People buy when they're ready to buy.

Brett Sikora:
I hang up when [crosstalk 00:11:03]

Joel Epstein:
And if you're in front of them, and they trust you, then they buy from you. People are like, "Oh, Joel, you're one of the best sales people I've ever met. You teach all these sales people." I'm like, "Not really."

Brett Sikora:
You give.

Joel Epstein:
That's exactly right. So, dial it back just for a second. Buyer consultations, yes or no?

Brett Sikora:
No.

Joel Epstein:
Okay. Is that over the phone? How do you start them? Are you taking someone they want to go see a house, you meeting them there? How do you do that?

Brett Sikora:
So we're in a highly competitive market. And we've tried a lot of different stuff. And I was a lead buyer's agent on his team, before I broke out and did my own thing. So we're always playing around with it. And, what we've found is that the person wants to see the property. That's why they're reaching out. The millennial buyer. They just want to see the property. So we'll set the appointment on that property, and then I'll do a follow up call prior to that appointment. So I'm giving them what they want. So I have them hooked in. And then I'm having that conversation in regards to do you want to see anything else while you're out? And then have you spoken with a lender yet. We'll get them in front of the proper lender.

Joel Epstein:
So, before you meet them, you are attempting to pre-qualify then?

Brett Sikora:
Right.

Joel Epstein:
Will you meet them if they won't talk to a lender?

Brett Sikora:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
Okay. All the time, or is it a gut?

Brett Sikora:
It's a gut.

Joel Epstein:
Okay.

Brett Sikora:
It's a business decision that I'm making there. And obviously, if you're a woman too, you have to be concerned with safety, that thing. But yeah, totally.

Joel Epstein:
Because some agents, with millennial buyers, they stand firm on that.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
They're like, "Look, I don't get paid a salary. I get paid an hourly rate. And if you won't even do that, you won't even show me that you can buy the house, sorry. Go pick another agent." And the people are different depending on the market they're in. There's some agents that insist on buyer consultation, and if you won't do it, even with millennials, they're like, "No."

Brett Sikora:
Now, we'll do them too. So I can sense on that prequalification call if they need guidance. If they need to actually sit down and have their hand held, we're meeting at my office, and we're going through it for an hour. We're going to go through properties-

Joel Epstein:
And you're going to explain them, "Look, you need this."

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
You need to come in-

Brett Sikora:
I'll have my lender come in with us, too. And we give them a real warm fuzzy feeling. But the reality is, we're right outside of Manhattan. So we have heavy six figure earners. They're finance guys. They know what they're doing. They know they're an 820 credit score, they're putting 25 percent down. They get it. And then that for us, it's building that relationship. So I think for me personally, look, if I'm in an FHA purchase in a 300000 neighborhood or something like that, you're getting pre-approved all day long.

Joel Epstein:
You're coming in. Not taking you.

Brett Sikora:
But if you're a hedge fund guy, and you know what's going on and you get it, I don't want to lose a client by pushing so hard on that preapproval.

Joel Epstein:
So you're going gut. You're going with guy.

Brett Sikora:
Totally.

Joel Epstein:
Okay. How about you? Buyer experience. What makes you different? Why would somebody buy a house with you or your team and want to refer other buyers to you?

Steven Rosado:
And we both learned from the same foundation, so same thing. Go giver style. So, I always coach my agents on you're on the same team as them. You're a team together, they need your help. And how can we help them best? So one of the value propositions that we bring to the table, too, is we do source properties that are not on the market. I know his group is able to do that as well. So, we're able to sit down, really identify what they're looking for, what fits their lifestyle, and plug into them.

Steven Rosado:
And then also let them know, a lot of times in our area, inventory is an issue. So, you're not going to find what you're looking for immediately. But with the skill set that we have, we're able to a lot of times find that property, or know agents that will have that property coming up, or off market, Those types of things. So, in addition to the fact that most of the inventory is already out there, we're going to be hunting down inventory that's not visible yet. And give you that other option.

Brett Sikora:
And sometimes you don't find it. But if the client recognizes that you're making that extra effort, especially in a bidding war market-

Joel Epstein:
Have you seen it. It's funny, you guys have both been selling real estate long enough to know, it's almost every market. I don't even care if it's a Southern market where it's really hot. Or if it's what I call an uber Northern market, where it gets really cold, where you have issues with the home inspections. You have snow on roofs for a month, or stuff just slows down. Typically, Easter Sunday is the day. That's the day. And the reason it happens after, there's some agents I work with, I'll be sitting down with them in October, and they're like, "Okay, I have 37 appointments between these three weeks." These are very experienced big time agents. Literally they have 37 listings all set up, and all the dates are after Easter.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
Every single one of them. There's a couple that are before. They're just like bam. Putting houses on. Has it turned a little bit? Is it still officially a seller's market? Or only in that first time? The first time is different everywhere, so we don't even have to use the price. But the three, two, one car garage. The starter, which in your market might be 700. In a different market it might be 250. So we don't care about the price. Are those still a full on bidding war? Crazy? Or did your market get flooded a little bit? Do people come on with those?

Brett Sikora:
It came back.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah, it came back.

Brett Sikora:
It came back last year.

Steven Rosado:
Last year, it was an interesting year. Because what you're saying, the assumption that it's a seller's market. The sellers assumed that, and it wasn't the case last year in our area.

Joel Epstein:
Interesting. So, it flipped back into a seller's market. So, right now there's eight offers on that house?

Brett Sikora:
No. What's crazy, is that it really depends on where you're at. And there's no necessarily, we can't call the shot like we could 2012 to 2016-17 where we're like, "Go here, no brainer, you're finishing out at that number." It's more so, if we're coming on price wise, at least I tell my team, whatever your gut number is, or whatever you really think this is going to sell at, go five percent below that. And we even list at that sometimes, and it'll still take 45 days to get the offer, and it will be right at asking. So-

Joel Epstein:
Is that for a starter? For what I call your classic three, two, with the little yard? That starter home for those people?

Brett Sikora:
Yeah. Exactly. I'd say the nice end of a starter. Now, that said, that FHA buyer, Bayonne, New Jersey for instance is more of a blue collar town by us.

Joel Epstein:
Which is a blue collar town, but literally you could throw a rock into Manhattan and it's still a blue collar town sitting right there, right?

Brett Sikora:
And that's why. Because their ease of commute to Manhattan is getting hooked up right now with the ferry systems and stuff. So, that's creating that. The real estate pushed it outside of our Hoboken, downtown Jersey City, and people are going there. And that's where we're seeing the insanity right now. Where everything that lists, it is still getting the multiple, 10, 11- [crosstalk 00:17:57]

Joel Epstein:
Did the move up stuff slow down though? Did the move up, and whatever a move up is in your market, we don't care what the price is, did that slow down?

Brett Sikora:
It's only coming out of necessity, like they had a second child or a third child. There has to be true motivation to trigger it, because they're going into that next more expensive home for the long play now. And they're not buying based on appreciation.

Joel Epstein:
Are you seeing those contracts they're seeing on the West coast now, where it's not ratified until they find a new place? Have you seen any of those yet?

Steven Rosado:
I mean, we've seen some of them.

Joel Epstein:
Yeah? Isn't that crazy? That they're getting away with that.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
In a market-

Steven Rosado:
In demand.

Joel Epstein:
Yeah. In Southern California, it was so brutal. There's literally nothing on the market. It was the only way to get people to sell their house is to have that contingency in there. Which that's a crazy contingency.

Steven Rosado:
It is.

Joel Epstein:
If you're the buyer, you're thinking, "Oh, I got this house." No you didn't, because if they can't find another one, you're not getting it.

Brett Sikora:
But I also find too, that when a seller commits to signing a contract, they've somewhat emotionally committed to moving on to the next place. So, their goal is to move out. They don't want to just drag things through, return when you're doing inspections and stuff for no reason whatsoever. So, if we do that, we find that they usually do find the next home.

Joel Epstein:
Okay, so what someone is going to say really about both you guys, which is a great message for everyone watching this, is you call I the Go Giver. That's my whole gig. I call it, it's a no close. Really is what it is. It's an I don't care. It's a, look, I'm here to provide value. What I tell agents all the time, is like before list.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
And what I mean by that is, if you go on a listing appointment, it's more important that the people like you than that you get the listing.

Brett Sikora:
Yep.

Joel Epstein:
And they're always like, "Wait. What?" Because they're all focused on, "Oh. 700000 dollar listing. Going to make 17000 dollars." I got to get it. No. You can walk out of there and not get it. Have the people love you, have the people go with a discount broker. Have them be completely whacked out and ruined and get ten referrals from that person, that you said no to. And it's funny, it's an itchy trigger finger, it's a patience thing. That's really hard for natural salespeople to wrap their arms around.

Joel Epstein:
To be able to take a break and know. And what I've found is that with teaching, it's a focus thing. What are you focused on? Are you focused on the sale? Or are you focused on the relationship? And I could see how you get tons of referrals if you're an expert. If you're a value add expert. And you don't care. You're like, "Why are you even here? You shouldn't be buying a house. You're kidding me right?" No, I mean people are like, "Wait, what?"

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
"Ten other people just told me I have to buy now." Yeah, I'm letting you know, if you buy you're insane. You're crazy. You need to wait a year. "What?"

Brett Sikora:
If you're going based on appreciation, it doesn't make sense to purchase right now. So maybe just rent, or if you're going to stay there for five or seven years, then let's do it. Let's make an offer. But decide what's important to you, and then we'll work going down that road.

Joel Epstein:
So, listings. Sellers. Tell me about what you do, Steve you can go first. What do you do if you listed my house and sold it? Why would I want to refer you? Get tactical. What stuff do you do in your business that makes you different, that makes you stand out? Serving the seller. What types of things do you do that people would take away from this and think, "Oh, that's cool. I need to add that."

Steven Rosado:
Yeah, so I think the best feedback I can get is when I'm on a listing presentation. They've been with a few other agents, and they're like, "You have a serious plan. You have a really targeted idea of what we're doing to do here." And there's a strategy for everything involved with that whole listing presentation. And most of it is built around what their goals are before I even get there. We'll use Chatham, because we were there yesterday. You guys wanted to be in Chatham by July, and this whole thing is based off of getting you there by July and having as little issues as possible. So, in terms of there's highest and best, and then we talk about those scenarios, and I define what would be the best for you in terms of the overall-

Joel Epstein:
Now, are you asking over the phone before you're at their kitchen table, or is most of this going down at the kitchen table? [crosstalk 00:22:17]

Steven Rosado:
A lot of it is before, yeah. [crosstalk 00:22:19]

Joel Epstein:
You got a referral, you picked up the phone, "Hey, this is Steve, how can I help you?" "Hey, my name is Joel, and this guy Brett referred me to you." "Oh yeah, Brett. I love Brett. He's one of my best friends." "Hey, I need to sell my house. Can you come over and list it." Are you making the appointment and going, or is there a whole bunch of stuff you want to know. Do you want to get as much as you can so you walk in prepared? Some agents like to walk in literally totally prepped. Other agents are like, "No. Get me in there. I want to be in the house."

Steven Rosado:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
Where do you go with that?

Steven Rosado:
It's a little bit of both. Like he was saying, too. He'll take people out without pre-approvals. You get that gut feeling, and I personally like, and I preach it to my folks, having an off the cuff conversation with people. Let's talk about what the goal is like here. What's that perfect scenario look like for you. Why are you going to Chatham? I heard they got a great school system there. And that's actually a place that my family considered. Where do you work? How long you been there? What does the wife do? What type of stuff are the kids into? Just really-

Joel Epstein:
Are you doing a complete CMA before you roll in? Are you ready? Do you know what you want to price it? When you roll in, do you know?

Steven Rosado:
I have a pretty good idea, yeah. I have a pretty good idea. And I'm also willing to go in there with the statement of, if they turn that number down, and they're not willing to list at the number that I'm at, I'll just be prepared to tell them, and take them through the consequences of not listing at that price. And how we may have to push July back if they needed to be in Chatham by July. Is that an option for you? What happens in that scenario?

Joel Epstein:
So let's talk about that. Brett, let's go to you. So, you go in, you're ready to roll?

Brett Sikora:
Yep.

Joel Epstein:
You know this house needs to be listed at 709.

Brett Sikora:
Yep.

Joel Epstein:
You just know that's what it needs to be listed at. And they're literally deadpanning you with 780.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah, so-

Joel Epstein:
And they say to you, "Oh, Brett, I don't know where you got that number from, but I'm really active in the neighborhood here and everything. And so and so sold their house for this, and so and so sold their house for this. And I was at a cocktail party last night, and I'm sure you guys have heard this 4000 times, and other agents love to hear this big value add for everyone. Because I always like to ask this question to hear how people overcome that objection. Where are you going with that? They're pretty educated, not a whack job. My hair is not green and on fire, okay? I'm earnestly saying, "Yeah, I don't know, 780."

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
And you know, a nickel over 709 is a challenge.

Brett Sikora:
Right. So, we'll say, "Look, I totally get the 780 aspect of it. 709 is what the data is showing, wouldn't you agree, right? And go into that. And we'll go into the comps and walk them through that.

Joel Epstein:
So you walking in the door with all that?

Brett Sikora:
Absolutely.

Joel Epstein:
Okay.

Brett Sikora:
If I can figure it out online before I get there, and based on the prequalification questions I'm having for the seller, then yes, I'll want to know that. If not, I'll actually take them through, I'm always tethering my laptop to my phone on appointments. So I'll take them through the MLS and I'll be like, "Let's try to figure out how to get to that 780 number." Because I want to make sure that you're going to appraise, too. If we got that number, we need the bank to agree to it, too. And odds are, if it's a cash buyer, they're usually not going to pay more than what the data suggests, because they want to get deals since they're cash.

Joel Epstein:
So, you suck them right into the MLS.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah. Let's do it. Let's try to figure it out. How are we coming up with that number? Where is Susie's house, tell me about it. Let's go in and actually look at what hers sold for, and then let's compare it to this. Because if I can get you 780, and I can break a record in your neighborhood, that looks really good for me. Works really well for you, but then I can do a whole marketing campaign around it. So, I love breaking records. I just want to make sure that we have the data to support it so we can actually get to the closing table, and we don't have to start over 45 days from now.

Joel Epstein:
So, everyone listen, he said, "I love breaking records." Which is a good way to put it. Instead of, what a lot of agents do, is they say, "Hey look, if I sell it for more, I make more. So of course I want to sell it for more." That can come off as abrasive.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
You said it a much better way. Which would actually create a conversation.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
Because a layperson would be like, "What do you mean, records? I don't understand."

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
And that would allow you to then explain, just under the guise of time, we don't need to go deep into it, but that would allow you to explain hey, let me tell you what that means. This will be the highest sale ever in this neighborhood.

Brett Sikora:
There's no data to support this, but yeah.

Joel Epstein:
And you know what? That's great for me to be the person that did it.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
And you're not talking about commission. You haven't said a word about the fact that yeah, you are going to make more money if you sell it at say 780 instead of 709. Now, they stand firm.

Brett Sikora:
Yep.

Joel Epstein:
Walk?

Brett Sikora:
No. So then I take it, but I have this conversation with them, too. I'm like, "The good thing is we constantly study data. So we know what's going on. And this percentage works regardless what market we're in. So if we take a listing, and let's say we're at 780, and we have no showings, no offers, we know we're 10 percent over priced. So we should be at that 709 number. If have showings, and we have no offers yet, we're typically five percent overpriced. And that means we need to come down to a 735, or 739 to get you offers if we do have the activity. So, fortunately, we can monitor this whole thing. So if it's really important for you to hit that number, at the 780, we'll just keep an eye on it. And we'll just be having that conversation.

Joel Epstein:
Now, do you tell them? Do you explain what happens when you do that? Because you know, really what happens when you do that. You know it's not good to be that high over. Meaning mentally, even with the other agents, you know that one goes into check out mode.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
Right?

Brett Sikora:
And for us, the longer something is on the market, the less profitability we have as an agent, as well. So we don't want to see that happen either. But that said, I'm not going to turn it down. If there is true motivation going back to what he said, and they're stuck on trying that 780 number, but I'm planting seeds ahead of time to have that 709 reduction, or 735-

Joel Epstein:
Are you putting what I call the downward escalator in writing?

Brett Sikora:
Is that the actual- [crosstalk 00:28:07]

Joel Epstein:
Well, no, that's how I coach it. I'm like, okay, fine. We're going to put it in writing right here. No offers in ten days, it's going to this. Period.

Brett Sikora:
No, that's a great idea.

Joel Epstein:
You need to be on board with me. Because you're hiring me, and you're going to pay me to list your house, and by the way, I'm going to spend money. Don't hire me if you don't think I'm going to spend money. I'm not just taking all that money and going to the bahamas.

Brett Sikora:
Right.

Joel Epstein:
I'm going to spend money to sell your house. That's what good agents do.

Brett Sikora:
Right. Exactly.

Joel Epstein:
So I don't want to spend money driving people to something that they're never going to buy.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
Because you're simply priced out of the market.

Steven Rosado:
So with the downward escalation, using that, because I use that as a tool. But, what's your opinion on this? I always make sure that they're aware that if 709 is what I was recommending, and in 30 days we got to adjust, I'm not recommending 709 at that point. Because if you're a buyer walking into the house, and you see it's been on the market for 30 days, and it's priced at 709, are you offering above asking, or asking? So what's your approach look like? Because mine is 699.

Joel Epstein:
Yeah, no. But it's game on. If you let someone price their house too high, it's game on with other good agents. You know what you guys will do. You guys will come in like great white sharks going to buy that house. And, a lot of times, if a house if over priced, there's two reasons. Right? It's overpriced, or it's a dog. There's nothing in between. If the house doesn't sell, it's overpriced or it's a dog. Is there any other reason? There's none, right?

Joel Epstein:
I can't even think of one. Either it's just crappy and it need a reno loan on it, it's horrible and it's on a main road or whatever, or it's overpriced. Because the market will bear what the market bears. Now, I understand in certain markets, the only exceptions I'll give, you guys maybe have a baby exception in maybe Hoboken only on condos. I'll give you the exception. But for the most part, the only place you see the complete whack a mole stuff is really in Manhattan. Or in San Francisco. Or right around some of these big tech companies where it's just insane. People just paying 200 over because they can. [crosstalk 00:30:14] I don't care what the appraisal is. I want it.

Steven Rosado:
I remember you had a guy submit an offer, in writing I think, but let's see who's crazier than me.

Joel Epstein:
Yeah. No, that's somebody that really wants the property. And that's rare. That's very unique. Usually, not necessarily high end markets, yes high end markets, but where people earn a lot of money.

Brett Sikora:
And it always happens on a property that's tough to hit the nail on the head value-wise as well. So, it's what somebody's willing to pay for that sort of thing. And let's say it's a special single family home, or a row house in San Francisco that's like no other, they don't want to lose that over 200. It's not worth it. It's not worth having the conversation with their wife or something afterwards, and then they're hooked on that property.

Joel Epstein:
So, when you list my house, what kind of touches am I getting from your team? What kind of service do I get from you? Why do I want to list with you? What are the things that you do that are cool, that are different, that provide value? That my listeners would love like, okay, that's cool, I want to add that to my repertoire?

Brett Sikora:
So, for starters in 2016, 2017, the style really changed. So this doesn't apply, but anything with a taupe or a brown or an earth tone finish that was really popular 2007, 2008. The Brazilian cherry cabinets. That all changed. So we bring in a stager that's actually going to walk the seller through the property. Because if we paint everything a crisp white, or a light gray or something in regards to that, or even if we change the hardware on their cabinets, it really makes the photos pop, and it makes the buyer get emotionally attached to owning that home. So there's little tweaks that we'll actually bring in the staging company and change things in regards to that. The seller does pay for it, but we're paying for the stager to actually come in and advise in regards to that.

Joel Epstein:
So you think most agents just want the listing and they're taking it? They're not going to that level?

Brett Sikora:
Absolutely. We just got a listing for 1.8 million, or 1.9 million because of that. Because we brought a stager in who advised to paint the whole place white. It's literally a simple separation.

Joel Epstein:
And the other agents they spoke to, no one said anything.

Brett Sikora:
Nobody went into that. And the seller walked into the property, and they were actually texting us afterward like holy crap, this looks great. This looks incredible. We painted it. It's paint. It's so simple. And it's about going above and beyond. And then also, in regards to our photography, we're always going to make sure that's the best. So we have a rockstar photographer that takes [crosstalk 00:32:34]

Joel Epstein:
So you spend money there and you're not scared?

Brett Sikora:
No. But it's not expensive. It's a little more expensive than what you would pay for just the run of the mill photographer to come out. It's a smidge more expensive. So it adds up when you're selling 130, 140 homes a year, but that's important to us. And then, we're-

Joel Epstein:
What about appraisals? Do you order an appraisal? A lot of great agents across the country, it's part of their business practice. They order an appraisal on every listing. They just do it. They pay for it. They just do it.

Brett Sikora:
Actually, it's a good tool for getting proper pricing. So, we couldn't come to an agreement on price-

Joel Epstein:
So you did it.

Brett Sikora:
So, twice in the last year I've had them say, "Call him, he's an appraiser in the area. Have him come out." It's the appraiser telling them the value then. We still list above that, but at least they're getting it from a third party where it's not us. The other thing, too, is getting home inspections done ahead of time. It's not a bad idea. It's bullet proofing the transaction.

Joel Epstein:
Is that any every time thing for you?

Brett Sikora:
No. It's just when I know there's going to be issues on a home inspection. I want it done prior to on the property.

Joel Epstein:
So, more so you can manage the seller's expectations, correct? Meaning when you know there's going to be repairs, and you know the seller's going to freak out, you may as well just deal with it right up front.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah, so we just take it up with them. And we advise them to make the repairs up front. We want that done to the property all ready-

Joel Epstein:
Before you put it on.

Brett Sikora:
And then that way their inspection isn't going to show it.

Joel Epstein:
If you know there's a grading issue, even if it's expensive, you know if that's what got that water into the basement, there's no way you're getting by that. And if someone looks at you and says they don't want to do it, do you walk from those?

Brett Sikora:
Well, the other thing too, is if we disclose it ahead of time in a transaction, let's say it's a cracked septic or something. We know the septic is failed or failing, then we can disclose that ahead of time, and it's a lot easier to keep a buyer into a transaction knowing that they already knew about it, as opposed to them finding out-

Joel Epstein:
Surprise.

Brett Sikora:
That it needs a 20000 dollar septic down the road. [crosstalk 00:34:29] Emotionally it's a lot better.

Joel Epstein:
Steve, what would you say? Listing, you listed my house, why would I want to refer you to other people? What did you do? Did you talk to me all the way through? How are your touches? Touch points? Is that organized in your business with your team or whatever? Are they getting called every week? What type of stuff do you do when you officially put a house on the market?

Steven Rosado:
Yeah, communication is key. When you call through expireds, we find often that one of the things that they hated about the prior agent was they didn't have proper communication. So, one of the things that I focus on, and I find specifically in our area, we got people that love data. We got that finance industry. And I ask them the question, knowing the answer. Are you guys into data? Do you want to know how many click rates we have, how many people are actually coming through our website, viewing our videos.

Steven Rosado:
And they always say yes to that. And so then I'll set up the expectations, you want that weekly, do you want that daily, and they'll usually say weekly. So, one of the values of that, too, is then we're able to once again be on the same team and say listen, we'll look at the click rates. We'll see how many are organically coming through. Because we do private websites for everything. At least I do private websites. I do a lot of video stuff. We were talking about LinkedIn before this.

Joel Epstein:
Yeah.

Steven Rosado:
My last video did really well on LinkedIn.

Joel Epstein:
Yeah, we're going to talk about that. This thing is turned off. I don't know how much time we have [inaudible 00:35:54] how much time do I have left?

Speaker 4:
You have about 10 minutes until 2 o'clock.

Joel Epstein:
Okay. So, let's talk about that. Let's talk about social media. Because you guys are young. So, I personally think, I see a lot of agents using social media incorrectly. They just load it with listings and crap and whatever. And people, it's unfollowing. No one knows when you're unfollowed. You don't know. And I think people would rather see who you are and get a feel, and I think people go to listing. I think of LinkedIn, I think if you get a new client, a couple. Whatever couple it is, it doesn't matter.

Joel Epstein:
Husband wife, husband husband, wife wife, it doesn't matter. You have a couple. The one that is more type A, the one that's more anal, is usually going to go to LinkedIn first. Okay? And they want to see who you are. They are literally looking at your resume, oh, okay, cool. Oh, there's some recommendations on there. Okay cool. Whatever. And the other, the fun one, is literally stalking you on social media. They got your name on there in quotes, who's this Rosado guy. Who is this dude. And they're literally going through. Because they want to know who you are. Because the two best sales techniques are what, do you guys know this? This is huge, by the way. Big takeaway for you.

Steven Rosado:
Excited to hear.

Joel Epstein:
Guilt and sympathy. Okay? Because you can't have either one of them without a relationship. And you're going to list death of a family member, divorce, and buying or selling a house. There's your big three right there of stressors. So you're going to be in the middle of it. And I tell agents this all the time, how dare you be unprofessional and be in the middle of that. Not fair. You're not allowed to go list that guy's house. That's not right. That's not right to unprofessionally list a 700000 dollar house and take that commission and screw it up.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
You're just not allowed. So, social media, I really find there are agents that swear all the time, I sell lots of houses doing this, or whatever. And I'm like, "I think you would sell more if you drove the people to you instead of a specific listing." So they clicked on you. And of course they're going to see all your listings when they go click on you, wherever that is.

Joel Epstein:
But you want them to be interested in you, and click on you because there's how many agents are there? I think we just pulled these numbers. 54000 licensed agents in New Jersey or whatever? Why are you different? Let's end with this. Talk to me about how you use social media, whether it's Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, whatever you use in your business or to support your business, and then Brett I'd love to hear from you as well. So, people out there listening, tell me what you've found, what you recommend, how you use it.

Steven Rosado:
And this is something that's changing. Because social media changes even just the algorithms and everything behind the change-

Joel Epstein:
All day long. Yeah.

Steven Rosado:
And in the real estate industry, Tom Ferry, a lot of the major coaches have been preaching video for a while. But what I've seen to be the issue is that people post a lot of bad videos. Really crappy videos.

Joel Epstein:
Very bad videos.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah, so the content is bad. You have the shaky selfie type of thing. So, one of the things that I've focused on is doing good video. I got good at actually shooting the video, editing videos and stuff like that. What I found was, people didn't really care because the content sucked. So, now, it's all about creating content that people are interested in. But we all know that people have an attention span of a gnat. So, it's got to be in that first three seconds. Something's got to be different about that video.

Joel Epstein:
How long is too long? I'd like to hear your opinion on this? I have one.

Steven Rosado:
Oh, of the total video? A minute and one second.

Joel Epstein:
See, I say it's 38 seconds. I think it's less than 40 seconds.

Steven Rosado:
You got to hit them with something at 38 seconds that keeps them in for the rest of that.

Joel Epstein:
It's very hard.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
Because for them to get to 38, they're already on to the next channel or whatever they're doing.

Steven Rosado:
That's true.

Joel Epstein:
So tell people, you're not a videographer by choice. Do you use a specific phone? Literally, is there something you carry around that gives a more quality video?

Steven Rosado:
Yeah. There's a couple of things. So, I use the iPhone X often. So, if I was to pull my iPhone out now, I got a little adapter for wide angle lens so you can see more in the background.

Joel Epstein:
So you got a little adapter that literally costs how much?

Steven Rosado:
That was 100 bucks.

Joel Epstein:
Okay, but you keep it with you?

Steven Rosado:
Yeah, I keep that one with me. He laughs because I use my Gimbal a lot [crosstalk 00:40:21]

Joel Epstein:
No, this is the stuff that people want to hear because they can't figure this out.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
And they're making crappy videos, and the technology is so awesome now that there's really no reason to have a crappy video.

Steven Rosado:
It's so easy.

Joel Epstein:
Correct?

Steven Rosado:
It's so easy. And the video is not necessarily so much about the camera, it's about the sound and content, honestly. That's the funny thing. Lighting, too. Lighting is important. But the sound, the content, the lighting.

Brett Sikora:
The authenticity of it, though, too.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Joel Epstein:
What are you doing videos on? Everything? Tell everybody about that. What are you using video for?

Steven Rosado:
Well, he and I both do a monthly, at least I think you do yours monthly. We were doing bimonthly to our database about a topic they might want to hear about. This is where you and I got on the burger topic, right?

Joel Epstein:
Yeah.

Steven Rosado:
So I was talking about how I put up on my page what topics would be interested in hearing about as it pertains to real estate? And-

Joel Epstein:
You got back top three burgers. Right? In Northern Virginia?

Steven Rosado:
I got one answer in a week, right? And then I was interested in actually hearing, what's the best burger because I'm going to go grab one. I got flooded with it. So [crosstalk 00:41:25]

Joel Epstein:
So everybody listen to this. This is not a set up. This is truth, people. Incredible content about real estate, one like and one response. Where's the best burger in Hoboken, and they broken the internet on that.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah, it was ridiculous.

Joel Epstein:
It is very important to hear this. You people hear this, and you don't believe it. Because you think if you're not putting some incredible content out there, no one is going to look at it. And that is not the content they want to see. Do you agree with that 100 percent?

Steven Rosado:
It's true. Honestly, this is what I would say. I personally can't make it through a video walkthrough of a house. I can't do it. I'll just be like, "This is boring. I'm just going to click on the pictures." Because I think the pictures give a good enough representation. So, this is what we've been dabbling with, and it's actually worked quite well. Is, let's focus on either what the seller thinks is really interesting about the house, or the neighborhood, or the most recent video that I did, that had probably the best response, was three things about this house that you can't see in the photos that are really exciting. And, that one got a great response even on LinkedIn, which generally nobody cares about anyway.

Joel Epstein:
So that's awesome. So, three things about this house that you would never know-

Steven Rosado:
That you can't see in the pictures.

Joel Epstein:
That are really exciting that you can't see in the pictures. And are you almost interviewing the seller and getting that information?

Steven Rosado:
Well, we did one like that. We did one where we interviewed the developer rep, and actually that one did good. We literally had 37000 impressions on Facebook. We spent maybe 125 dollars. But we had it catered from a local restaurant. We were literally sitting down, eating and drinking booze, and just talking about here's some cool things about the building. What are the things that I can't see that you love about the building? And just interviewing him about that. And you know how much Zillow leads cost, right?

Joel Epstein:
Yeah. A lot.

Steven Rosado:
They're a thousand dollars a lead in our area.

Joel Epstein:
A lot. Yeah.

Steven Rosado:
And we had 18 qualified leads come through our private website based off of an ad spend of 125 bucks. But it was the content. It wasn't my hair, obviously. It was the content.

Joel Epstein:
And it also wasn't the obvious stuff that they could go see if they're looking anyway. They can see all the bedrooms, they can see the fixtures, they can see all that. This was something that they clearly could not see and wouldn't know. And it was probably fun. You could probably tick that up to five and have three real ones and two extremely funny ones. When the next nor'easter comes, you won't flood here. Something just hilarious. If you're on the second parking deck, which comes with the unit, you won't flood. You know something like-

Steven Rosado:
[crosstalk 00:44:07]

Joel Epstein:
You didn't know that. Exactly. So, it's funny you say that. So, video. You're right, video is like video. It's all about video and what you're saying, what your premise is, I would tend to agree, is that people are doing it and they're adapting it, but they're doing it wrong.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
It's not that they're doing it wrong, how about they're not doing it right. I think that's a better way to say it.

Steven Rosado:
They're doing it because their coach told them to do it-

Joel Epstein:
And it shows.

Steven Rosado:
And it's embarrassing. If I was a seller and I saw some of these hey, come to my open house today type of thing and it's all shaky. I cringe a little bit when I look at those.

Joel Epstein:
And you do you use a Gimbal?

Steven Rosado:
I use a Gimbal, I use a wide angle, and I won't post it unless I'm like, "Oh, that was really good."

Joel Epstein:
[crosstalk 00:44:52] So you're going to take a minute. No, that's another add for everyone listening. Do not post videos unless you've actually looked at them. Just take a minute and look at it, and even furthermore I tell people, have your friends take a look at it. Have your biggest critic take a look at it. And if your biggest critic goes, "Are you kidding me?" You can't post that.

Steven Rosado:
This might be helpful too. And he and I both went through this, because we've been posting videos for a while. You're going to hate your voice. And you're going to think you don't look right. Right? [crosstalk 00:45:18] That's going to happen. My voice is hateable. But the thing is, that's going to happen. And just know everybody else has that same problem. But just focus on the sound quality, the lighting, and the content, and you'll be fine. You'll be okay. Just, if you can get a Gimbal, get a Gimbal. But yeah. It's not going to be perfect, so you can't critique it too much.

Joel Epstein:
Okay, so when you're putting those videos, you put LinkedIn and Facebook? Are you putting anything on-

Steven Rosado:
LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram is really huge clicking through.

Joel Epstein:
You are. So, when you get a new client, let me go over to Brett real quick, are you immediately friending, linking, is that just part of your process? It's immediate? You get a new client, new listing or whatever, boom.

Steven Rosado:
Yeah, I tell them like my Facebook page, and then share what I'm going to post about your home.

Joel Epstein:
So you're linking with them on LinkedIn, you're trying to get them to follow you on Instagram, if they are, and you're definitely hooking up with them on Facebook, right?

Steven Rosado:
100 percent. Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
Okay. That's part of your gig, that doesn't happen, you're like, "Whoa, what's going on?" Right?

Steven Rosado:
Yeah, because it works out great for them. And it works out good for us.

Joel Epstein:
Okay.

Steven Rosado:
Listen, one of the numbers on that, of how many people are actually going to buy the house through that, it's hard to track, but I can tell you it definitely helps differentiate when the playing field is somewhat leveled with Zillow and stuff like that.

Joel Epstein:
All right. So social media, Brett. What is your thing with social media? How do you use it? What do you think about it? What do you think about LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. Just in a nutshell.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah, we were talking about it before we came in here. But that's where it's going. We're both built as heavy phone call guys, and we're seeing the industry rapidly change. So you have to stay ahead of it in regards to that. So he and I, like he said, we've been shooting video for a while. We use a company that edits firm, everything, sends it out twice a month, goes to our whole database.

Steven Rosado:
We have a green screen.

Brett Sikora:
We have a green screen. To that point though, I see so many agents make mistakes where they don't have a call to action, or they don't have something like he's saying where they can force a registration and click them to sign up on this web page, so then you can follow up. Our video emails that are going out, they're saying click this link to go here, to do this, and then I can see the back end of it.

Brett Sikora:
So I actually know who's interacting with our emails or not. From there, that's a good person for me to be following up with. From that as well, we do like you were saying earlier, more so the every seller is going to get a boosted Facebook ad that's going through Instagram and funneling through there. LinkedIn, we don't do too much with actually sharing listings on it, because I feel like it gets spammy, and I don't necessarily think that is as much of a market [crosstalk 00:47:57]

Joel Epstein:
All you have to do with LinkedIn is just take when you have a little down time, if you're a drinker, just make a cocktail and just go through and look at the likes, and you'll be like, "Wow."

Brett Sikora:
Well [crosstalk 00:48:09] we post our videos to LinkedIn though.

Joel Epstein:
Yeah.

Brett Sikora:
But I don't want to just spam people with listings all day long. That said, what we do that's been working quite well, is there are LinkedIn messaging service and stuff like that, too. That you can actually go comb through an area, and then you can have a robot messaging people asking them, hey, do you want to grab coffee in regards to your, and we can specifically go into certain areas.

Brett Sikora:
I see that you live in Hoboken, interested in grabbing coffee, just discuss your real estate needs. If not, no worries at all. If that's hitting 80 something people a day, we can then go in and respond and that sort of thing. And like he said earlier, it's just a numbers game. But that's a very inexpensive tool that you can do a really focused automated connecting thing. So it works well with somebody who's going to have a good face to face with a client who actually [crosstalk 00:48:57]

Joel Epstein:
Now, say you're sharing a listing video on LinkedIn. You have the seller share it on his or her LinkedIn, correct?

Steven Rosado:
No.

Joel Epstein:
Why not?

Brett Sikora:
It's a good idea.

Steven Rosado:
That's a great idea. Joel, I feel like I owe you for that one.

Joel Epstein:
I should have billed you guys. No, but I mean why not? It also puts you into their network.

Steven Rosado:
Oh, I like that, too.

Joel Epstein:
Which is not a bad place to be. But it benefits the seller. It's not like you're pulling a fast one on them. It benefits them. There could be someone in their network that's like, "Oh man, I've been trying to move to that area forever."

Steven Rosado:
That's a great idea.

Joel Epstein:
And it's a light, it's not a heavy sale. I mean, big whoops and you're in LinkedIn, you can just go right by it if you want.

Steven Rosado:
That should be a coach.

Joel Epstein:
If you go right by it. It's funny, because you were saying how you're phone call guys, and we've gone from calling, emailing, to texting. To mail. To calling. And I'm going to tell you, from what I've seen, hands down, it's snail mail and phone.

Steven Rosado:
Handwritten mail, right? That's what you promote in.

Joel Epstein:
Oh, yeah. Big time.

Brett Sikora:
Hey, Joel, I have a DS35 Neopost letter folder stuffer sealer in my office. So don't get me wrong. We hit everything. We try to literally hit everything. So I'll put an 8000 piece eight and a half by eleven, looks signed by me, but I'll spit it out to everybody. We're constantly playing with that. And it is so inexpensive. You can send letters for 89 cents a letter.

Joel Epstein:
The best agents in the country do not make any phone calls. They take inbound phone calls.

Steven Rosado:
How is the mail return? How is your mail return in our area, is it decent?

Brett Sikora:
It's good, yeah.

Steven Rosado:
Because people get a lot of mail. I've seen on our team specifically, I've seen the ones that do the best with it do handwritten personal mail.

Joel Epstein:
And I was going to say, people don't get as much mail as you think. People get the same crap. I was making fun of a room of agents for sending expensive just sold cards. It's funny, I'll start with a new agent. I'll take a lot of one on one agent clients, and I'll start with a new agent, and we'll do a consult. They'll fly me in to look at their stuff. And when I'm done, they're crying. Because I just threw out 10000 dollars worth of marketing stuff. I'm like, "Yeah, we're never mailing that again." And they're like, "Why?" I'm like, "Because I said."

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
Because I'm letting you know right now, trash.

Brett Sikora:
Yeah.

Joel Epstein:
Unless it's a cold area, and they need kindling, they go ahead and send that. They could just stack them and use them to light fires. Because nobody is looking at, "Yeah, but I sold a house once 27 months ago to one guy." I'm like, "Cool. You are wasting your time right now."

Brett Sikora:
It's a lot of money to get that one. Exactly.

Joel Epstein:
But you are a hundred percent correct. When people get the mail, do this deal with your spouses or whatever, ask whoever gets the mail at your house, just watch them for a week. Watch what they do. Trash. Bill. Invitation. Then they go to bill, invitation, usually invitation bill first. [crosstalk 00:52:03] And that's the handwritten.

Steven Rosado:
The handwritten [crosstalk 00:52:05]

Brett Sikora:
And they have specific mailing lists and stuff, too. Wholesalers will buy lists or something. Somebody who's owned for 20 plus years, high equity, and if you're sending them, let's say in New Jersey with our high tax rate. If you're sending a baby boomer a specific letter in regards to selling before the market starts to cool off, so you can get out of the state, just something to hook them, that's really specific. You can do absentee owners, that thing too. You can get hyper specific like I was saying with LinkedIn. You can do that with mail, too. And I feel like a lot of agents don't know that.

Joel Epstein:
All right. How do people find you? If they want to find you? Email? Brett@-

Brett Sikora:
Brett@sellwithsikora. S-I-K-O-R-A, .com.

Joel Epstein:
Okay. And we'll put that up as well.

Steven Rosado:
Rosadorealtor@gmail.

Joel Epstein:
It's not burgersareus@gmail?

Steven Rosado:
That's coming soon.

Joel Epstein:
That's a different podcast. That's coming soon. That's a food podcast. You can come down. [crosstalk 00:53:00] Got to get a bunch of chefs in here. Yeah, so everyone, I just want to thank these guys for coming down in the studio. It's always so much better when people are in the studio with me. It's a lot more fun. These are two young agents. I know, you're really not that young anymore. But they're young, the average age of agents, I think it just went down a tick, it's now 57.1 years old, instead of 57.3. These are two young guys making their mark selling a lot of real estate, doing it the right way.

Joel Epstein:
And I'm sure you guys are good with phone calls, or if somebody wants to reach out and ask a question. Because I always run out of time. I could just talk about listings for eight hours. Literally exactly what you do. You guys brushed on it. There's some really good points in here, and some good things to add to your business, and as always, I just want to thank you for listening, watching The Big Joel Show. You can watch this and listen to this on any podcast platform. Apple, YouTube, my Facebook page which is The Big Joel Show. And again, your comments are appreciated. Thank you very much. Hope you like this episode. Thanks guys.

Brett Sikora:
Thank you.

Steven Rosado:
Yep, thanks.

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