Episode 030: Angie Goff, Fox5 DC & The Oh My Goff Show

Joel Epstein:
Hi. Good morning everybody. Coming to you live in the studio here at The Big Joel Show in upper Georgetown, or lower Glover park, or whatever you want to call it. Today I'm pretty excited I have a crazy, wacky, very fun person with me. I have Angie Goff from Fox Five in DC, for those DC people that watch the news and watch, we'll talk about like it or not, which we talked about a little bit. She put the glasses on while I wasn't looking, and she has a, is it a bin?

Angie Goff:
A happy bin, yes.

Joel Epstein:
She has a happy bin. She actually has an adult bin because Angie has her own podcast show that maybe one day I might get lucky and be able to get on. But she has bin that when you take your kid to the dentist and they're good, they get to reach in the bin and get what they want. She has an adult bin, so this is going to be very interesting. I don't know what's deep in there so we don't want to reach too far, is that correct?

Angie Goff:
That is correct. But if you are good to me, Big Joel, [crosstalk 00:01:21] you'll get to get something out of the bin, yes.

Joel Epstein:
I might be able to get in the bin.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
So just the particulars, I'm going to let Angie tell her story, but Angie is currently on, I said The, I thought it was in LA when you're naming roads. She's on Five at Four. So she is the four o'clock Maven on Fox five in DC, Washington DC, and that's online as well so they can [crosstalk 00:01:45].

Angie Goff:
Foxfivedc.com/live and then we're also live on Facebook during that 4:00 PM hour Eastern Time. So we always do a Facebook Live and that's your behind the scenes look at the craziness, what really happens, the story behind the story.

Joel Epstein:
Exactly. So that's fun. I mean, I'm excited to have Angie on today, it's fun, fun. And let me just start off by saying, she rolled in with her own headphones. And I know those of you that watch The Big Joel show all the time, you'll notice she has different headphones on, she brought her mug. I mean, this is [crosstalk 00:02:12]. Yes, exactly. So expect a great show today.

Joel Epstein:
So, Angie, my audience, hopefully my audience is growing, but my audience is filled with people that work really hard and sell stuff. Especially they sell lots of real estate, and they sell lots of mortgages, and they sell all kinds of things, a lot of commission to people. So, as we go along, I'm going to ask you some questions because you have a cool story about how you just got where you are that I think some good tidbits I think that you would just naturally share ... By the way, no prep here, she got zero prep from me. And no one gets prepped for me.

Angie Goff:
Can I add a disclaimer?

Joel Epstein:
Are you asleep?

Angie Goff:
No, I am the worst salesperson in the world, just so that you know that ahead of time.

Joel Epstein:
Okay, so, just as our first lesson of the day, you can't sell anything to anyone, they buy when they're ready and you need to be in front of them. So when people say they're the worst salesperson, they usually are thinking of it in the wrong way because you're thinking about tackling someone, and trying to jam something down their throat and make them buy something. Those are the worst sales people in the world and that's not the way I teach that. So, [crosstalk 00:03:19] you're probably actually a very good salesperson [crosstalk 00:03:23] because you sold your way right in here with your own mug. I mean, you brought it.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
Exactly. With her podcast, right on there. Exactly. Because Angie is also the host of a very popular OMG podcast or Oh My Goff Show, Angie Goff. So Angie, let me just start with just tell your story a little bit. How did you get where you are? I know you have unique family situation going on, which I think is really cool. We were just talking about you're married to a dentist, of course I wanted to make sure that he liked the Seinfeld episode, the anti-dentine episode. But tell me a little bit about who you are and how you got where you are.

Angie Goff:
Okay. Well, my name is Angie Goff, BNGB, drop it like it's Goff. I mean, I go by a lot of different names.

Joel Epstein:
Okay.

Angie Goff:
I'm just kidding. But I actually spent most of my time in Seoul, South Korea. My mother is Korean, my-

Joel Epstein:
Born there.

Angie Goff:
Born there, yes. My father is from South Carolina. So, when people ask me what I am, I'm usually like, I'm from South Korea liner, it just makes sense. So, I spent most of our time there because my dad did three tours in Seoul. I have two sisters, [crosstalk 00:04:36].

Joel Epstein:
So a military brat?

Angie Goff:
[crosstalk 00:04:38] Totally a military brat, go army. I actually was in JROTC and had dreams of going to West Point and becoming a general, I had posters on my wall of shorts coughed in Eisenhower and those were the people [crosstalk 00:04:58].

Joel Epstein:
You were that kid.

Angie Goff:
Yes, I idolized him, I was on the right foot team, the color guard, did it all. But my SAT sucked and the reality [crosstalk 00:05:07].

Joel Epstein:
You mean your parents weren't going to buy their way in for that?

Angie Goff:
No.

Joel Epstein:
They weren't writing the $75,000 check?

Angie Goff:
No. Where did we go wrong?

Joel Epstein:
They didn't know the right people.

Angie Goff:
Yes. They did not know the right people apparently. And so it did not work out. And I ended up going to George Mason because when my dad left Korea, he ended up moving to Herndon and he's still working for the government, he's retired Army, and they still live in the area. And I finished up high school, went to George Mason, and finished up school there in communications.

Joel Epstein:
Okay.

Angie Goff:
And from there, I began my journey trying to pursue a broadcast journalist career.

Joel Epstein:
So general to broadcast journalism.

Angie Goff:
Yes. [crosstalk 00:05:49] it changed. And really there was a little bit in between. There was a little gray area because my father said, "Well, if this doesn't work out, then you can go to Mason, you can be an engineer."

Joel Epstein:
The whole general thing.

Angie Goff:
Yes, the general thing. That's not going to work out, you're not going to go to West Point or a military school, then let's try this. You can go into business or you can be an engineer, he's a systems engineer. And basically, he just wanted me to have a solid, like any parent, a solid career that he knew I was going to get some health benefits.

Joel Epstein:
Brothers and sisters.

Angie Goff:
Do I have brothers and sisters?

Joel Epstein:
Yes.

Angie Goff:
Yes, I have two sisters. So one who also was military, and she's retired military, MI like my father, military intelligence. And my brother in law, my grandfather was a veteran. He was in the Korean War, as well as Vietnam. So the military really runs deep in our family. And it's something that we're very proud of, and we feel very, very connected to. And even though I'm not in the military, as a journalist, I've spent a lot of time doing stories that are related to that community. And I've done things with the yellow ribbon fund, we still give to the Wounded Warrior every month, that project. And so it's still very much a big part of my life.

Angie Goff:
But I always knew that I wanted to write stories. I used to compete as a child in poetry contest and writing stories. I would sit in the library and just for hours, this is before of course ... it's probably because we had no technology and all that. But-

Joel Epstein:
You mean back when the [crosstalk 00:07:21] Dewey Decimal system was in place. By the way, raise your hand when you're watching this at home if you know what the Dewey Decimal System is, without looking it up. That's just a side note. [crosstalk 00:07:33] Comment on Facebook.

Angie Goff:
And micro fish. If you know micro fish then I'm-

Joel Epstein:
You mean this? This.

Angie Goff:
Yes. Yes. This.

Joel Epstein:
Yes.

Angie Goff:
So, I remember my father brought me to the counselor at George Mason because once I started there, I had to take some econ classes, these types of classes that involve numbers, which we already knew I was not very good at, obviously, because I totally bombed that part of the SAT. I didn't even get accepted into the Preparatory Academy at West Point because it was that bad. There was no hope.

Angie Goff:
And I didn't do well. I was getting D's, I was borderline almost failing. And my dad said, "Okay, look, we're losing money here because these classes cost money." I was working, he was working, we both took a loan out. So he brought me to the counselor and when we got there, the counselor asked him to wait outside because she can make her own decisions, she's old enough to do this. And so he was taken aback by that and he waited outside.

Angie Goff:
And I went in there and she asked me my likes, my dislikes, what I enjoy doing, and it was determined that they didn't have a journalism school, but they knew I like to write, I liked communications. So, it was decided that, that's where I would probably fit the best. And from there, I did five internships, my GPA shot straight up, I lied for an internship for a local radio show here in DC [crosstalk 00:08:59].

Joel Epstein:
I mean, who doesn't? I mean, it is what it is.

Angie Goff:
But it's because I finally had ... even after I got over the guilt and that feeling of being a failure, because going and telling your Korean mom that, I want to write, I want to tell stories, she is fine with that. She's fine. She loves the arts, I played the piano, I did art, she worked with me on my handwriting, but that's a hobby. In their eyes, that's something nice on the side. But it wasn't seen as a career.

Angie Goff:
So once I got past that feeling of initial shame because I had never envisioned that I could actually do that for my life, things just took off. The moment you let go of that stuff, and I think that, that was my first realization of just not caring about what other people think is good for you, going with your gut, finding people who support you and believe in you. And my parents, they turned a corner. My dad, once he saw how happy I was he was like, okay, yes, I get it now. I get it. And So-

Joel Epstein:
So just so you know, that's a very big message. That's what I call the P message, not the PP, the P message, and that's the message of passion. And a lot of people they wonder or they'll ask me all the time, Joel, you know that person, why are they so successful? How come they're so successful? I'm like, because they don't work. They don't have a job. And they're like, What do you mean they don't have a job? I'm like, what they do is not a job to them. They're very passionate about what they do, they love it, and because of that, they're extremely successful at what they do because they're not looking at it like a slog or something they have to do all day.

Joel Epstein:
And that's a common denominator with every successful person that I know or interview, if they found something that they love ... It's like my wife says to me all the time, she's like, "If you weren't married to me, you'd be working for free." And I'd say, what do you mean? She goes, because you love what you do so much, you wouldn't charge anyone. And I'm like, she goes, yes. You need me standing there and going, did you charge them? I mean, I just heard you on the phone for a half hour, because I Love what I'm doing. So now were you doing investigative, or were you writing out pieces, or what were you doing?

Angie Goff:
So I tried a little bit of everything. So from there, this newfound freedom was so great that I started writing for the newspaper because I wanted to see how that would go.

Joel Epstein:
What section.

Angie Goff:
I would write anything and everything that they would let me.

Joel Epstein:
Okay.

Angie Goff:
So I remember I went and I was able to meet Tina Brown, who of course of Magazine [crosstalk 00:11:26]. Yes. Walks in, drops her fur coat, and yes, legendary publisher and she had just come out with a new magazine called, Talk. I don't know if you remember this, it didn't last long. But I remember I went to go see a Talk with her and I got to review what this magazine is about, what they were trying to do. And it was cool. I didn't cover campus events or anything like that, but for me, it was just having the chance to write something, see if it was good enough to be published.

Angie Goff:
In addition to that, I went and I did a broadcast internship at a local station. Thought that was fun but then I was like, maybe I want to explore radio. And that's when I lied and told the radio station, The Morning Show, that I was getting credit. And when you talk about the P word and passion, I look back and I'm like, gosh, I'm working two jobs, I've got a full workload at school going on, I'm in a sorority and I have a position in that so I'm doing that on the side, I'm trying to have a social life. But yet I'm going in at 3:00, 4:00, 5:00 in the morning for free, essentially, not even getting credit.

Joel Epstein:
Local station here.

Angie Goff:
Local station here.

Joel Epstein:
Am or FM?

Angie Goff:
Am.

Joel Epstein:
Okay.

Angie Goff:
Yes. No, FM. FM.

Joel Epstein:
Okay.

Angie Goff:
Yes, early in the morning. I mean, I'll go ahead and tell you.

Joel Epstein:
DC 101.

Angie Goff:
DC 101, yes. Went away. Yes. So and I would go in there and for me, that's what it was about. It was about just learning and seeing ... and I loved it. I loved the freedom of radio. And then after school, I didn't really have a tape because it's not a journalism school, we didn't have enough money for me to go to University of Maryland because that was out of state. And so I literally bought books off of eBay, on Merb blocks broadcast and writing. I bought broadcast books, I would practice with my hairbrush, just like a singer, like I was JLO or something.

Angie Goff:
I would go to the gym and watch the closed captioning and pretend that while the news was on, you could see the closed captioning, it almost looked like a teleprompter. And in my mind, while I'm working out I would act like I was reading the news because that was the closest I could get to it. And I think, I tell everybody, that even when you don't have the tools, it's my biggest message when I do commencement speeches or I'm talking to someone who's looking for advice who's younger, is that you just got to find a way. You find a way to make it happen.

Angie Goff:
And if you want it that bad and if the curiosity is there, and the interest is there, you will find it no matter what, whether it's on a treadmill at LA Fitness acting like you're the news person.

Joel Epstein:
I find that most people that can't find it, it's not that they're not necessarily inherently lazy. Yes, there are people like that, but it's because they haven't found their P yet. So they're not passionate enough to figure it out because if you're passionate, if you want something bad enough, I think it's a human thing, we figure it out.

Angie Goff:
We do.

Joel Epstein:
You figure it out. Now, some people lie, and cheat, and steal, but there's a lot of ways to figure it out without doing any of that, with just being industrious, or whatever it is, or telling what I call a white positive lie, which is basically what you did. You hurt nobody with that lie, you got what you wanted, and you obviously performed when you got there or they would have booted you right out of there.

Angie Goff:
That's right.

Joel Epstein:
So it's all good.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
It's no problem. So with hairbrush, working out ... By the way, I'm getting the vision on that I'm just going with that, I wish I had a whiteboard, we could draw it. But hairbrush, working out and then how do we get in front of the camera? Did you have one of those roads where you hear all the time where they sent you to Pica, and then to Wichita, and then to Saskatchewan, and then all around, did you have to do that?

Angie Goff:
I did but I wasn't good enough right out of college to do that. I had nothing. I didn't have a tape. I literally would roll around with my dad's camcorder, the massive thing-

Joel Epstein:
When you say a tape, you mean almost like a real [crosstalk 00:15:32]. I have a speaker real if you want to hire me. Your tape of your work.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
Okay, got it.

Angie Goff:
Yes. So this is back in the day before the phones, and you can make your own tape, [crosstalk 00:15:40] and you can shoot your own video. Yes, there was a big VHS tape. And so I didn't have material that was good enough for that. Even though I went and I created my own stories, and I made my own videos. I was a content creator before our time.

Angie Goff:
So, I went to LA because one of my internships that I did there was with Entertainment Tonight, and I worked for Mark Steines who was the host of the show. And I remember he called me during my senior year because his assistant was going to be moving on to go work for Mark Burnett. And he knew that I wanted to go this route, he had a local news climbed his way up background, he was like, you're a hard worker, come out here, you can work for a year or two, we can get you a tape together so that I would become good enough to apply to Topeka, Kansas, and Grand Rapids, and those places, Flint Michigan, which I got rejected. I think about all the places I got rejected from El Paso, Flin, and it's it's hilarious when I look back at it now because it was devastating.

Joel Epstein:
So tell me ... Not to interrupt you because I'm digging the story. So when you, "show business or whatever", is all about rejection, it's just being rejected all the time. And a lot of my audience gets rejected a lot. And what do you think when you get rejected? What did you think when you were younger? And what did it morph into now? What was your first ... Most people when they get rejected the first time they want to have a serious pity party for themselves, and then there's a light switch goes off and goes, all right, who cares, moving forward. There'll be somebody that wants me. What was your thought because it's a great message for people watching.

Angie Goff:
Yes. I mean, I've actually had a news director, I remember when I was in California, that looked over my tape and he's like, I don't even know what to tell you. He was like, this is just so bad. He's like [crosstalk 00:17:37] I don't even know what to tell you. And this is in front of a group of panel people because we were all going through our tapes, we were at this little conference in Palm Springs. And I just remember doubting myself and saying, gosh, maybe I am in the wrong business. Maybe this isn't what I'm meant to do.

Joel Epstein:
So the first brutal rejection [crosstalk 00:17:57] when a person was like, why are you even here?

Angie Goff:
Yes. He was a top news director for one of the LA stations, which at the time was probably one of my old [crosstalk 00:18:06] teenage dreams, right, yes. One of those. And I think that what helped me is that I went back and I talked with another journalist who had done really well, and she actually had worked for that news director. And she said, "Well, this is what he told me, and now look at me." And so I think that finding people like I said, the support group mentors leaning on others, sometimes even pestering them, that's where you're going to find your strength.

Angie Goff:
And I remember when I left my internship, before Mark Steines offered me that position, because I still had a year of school to finish, and I'll never forget it and this is why I really believe that words have power, and that, like Maya Angelou said, I was leaving and the last words were, as I walked out of his office is, you have a bright future. That sounds so simple, but to come from someone like that and someone that I looked up to, who I knew was more than just an Entertainment Tonight hosts. This was a guy who started as a photographer, he's from Dubuque, Iowa, he had worked his way up.

Joel Epstein:
He went to Grand Rapids, he was there.

Angie Goff:
Yes, he's done it all. And he's was [crosstalk 00:19:15] behind.

Joel Epstein:
No cut to Grand Rapids people.

Angie Goff:
Yes. And he was proof that sometimes you have to take a job, and I say this all the time, while I had friends that were passing me by, and we're going to their first jobs in Topeka, or even higher, I mean, some of them got in big markets. I knew that I had to take the opportunity that was in front of me, and that was a job that was behind the scenes. And then on the side, I could work on trying to get towards that goal. So every decision I've ever made in my career, and it started then, was, does this get me closer to ultimately what I want to be doing? If I work hard enough. The only person that can stop you is you.

Angie Goff:
And if I can answer that question and say, hey, yes, this is not the end all, be all, everything is temporary, the sky's the limit, as cliche as it sounds, then that was enough mentally to help me just push through it. And so when Mark said, "You have a bright future", those are words I still go back to today. I think back and I'm like, gosh, this was someone who really believed in me and and he still served as a mentor to me.

Angie Goff:
And so I think that, for me to get past to push through all the no's, there is a little bit of self help that's involved with it, there is a little bit of having a go to place, I tell people, you should have always whether it's scripture, or it's a quote, something that's close by, whether it's on the back screen or the wallpaper of your phone, that you can glance down and just remember why you're doing what you're doing, and what your own potential is because we need that as humans, as much as we don't want to admit it, even the people with the biggest egos, Joel.

Joel Epstein:
Well you know there are no big egos, we'll talk about that in a minute. They're all the same size.

Angie Goff:
But they're all wearing it. I try to keep this in mind, with my co workers, and my family, and my friends, we're all wearing these signs around her neck that are invisible that says, I want to be seen. I want to know that what I am doing matters. And I think that so many times we forget that. We forget that whether we're in a position of leadership, or we're just a colleague, and that really can change your perspective if you can envision these invisible signs on people.

Joel Epstein:
It's a very timely message because today, everything is really fast. I know you have young kids, so I looked at your ... I was looking at your bio, you have young kids. I have older kids and a young kid, I got 24, 21, 18, and I have a nine year old, a fourth grader. And as I was teaching each one of my kids how to drive, even better 24 year old, so that was here at 16, so eight years ago, this kid could literally get nowhere without naving there, literally 711, around the corner, he needed a nav, okay.

Joel Epstein:
Now I don't know about you, you're not quite as old as me, but I see how old you are. I had an ADC map book, and I figured out where to go. There was no nav. And so everything is so fast that everybody expects everything so fast. And while you were talking, because one of the things I constantly work on for myself is not cutting people off, or not wanting to talk. And I was listening, that's why I wasn't being rude, I was writing notes. I remembered, the other P word is patience, is actually being patient. You actually have to know that you are not going to go like this and it's going to happen for you. And by the way, it happens for no one.

Joel Epstein:
If you talk to the most successful people in the world at whatever they're doing, go all the way to the top of the house, Tech Titans and all these people, there's not one of these people that went, and it just happened for them unless they had an extremely large Trust Fund and someone said, you're going to do this and they just sat in the chair. That's about it.

Joel Epstein:
But today, nobody's patient. They're not patient, and they don't want to work for it. They don't want to go, all right, I'll take that job, then what I'll do is I'll do a really good job, and then I'll get this job, I'll do a really good job. And then I'll get this job, and I'll do a really good job. And then I can go in the interview for the big market, and I'm going to get it. You know what I mean because I did this, this and this. Most people, it is very hard for them to get in that mode, especially younger people. But even it's older people are being afflicted by it because everything is so fast.

Joel Epstein:
I mean, you're in the news, you are a TV personality, you are talking about topical stuff literally that in two seconds is old already. And and so it applies to everything that's going on. So, when you listen to the story that Angie just told there, by the way, a lot of really, really good nuggets in there as far as getting what you want, and being successful and getting what you want, one of the biggest takeaways that I took from there is, you got to be patient. The other thing is, you didn't say it but I know you are from meeting you, from already being with you for 20 minutes I'm sure you're extremely ...

Joel Epstein:
By the way, she came in and said, you didn't know you're going to interview a hot mess today, did you? Which and by the way, most hot messes that say they're hot messes are never hot messes, it's part of their shtick. So my bet is is that you are probably extremely strategic and that is how you got what you want. And that is part of the message actually thinking it through, being patient, being strategic, and being passionate about what you want, because passion always shines through.

Joel Epstein:
The other thing that you said, which I think is super cool because everybody ... People ask me all the time in interviews about bad bosses, especially if I do a keynote somewhere or whenever they'll raise their hand doing q&a, they'll raise their hand and they want to talk about bad bosses. And a lot of times bad bosses are the biggest ego monsters there are, and they just hate their life so much that they can't wait to get to work and hate on some people there because at home they can't get away with it. At home they're being beaten down. So they want to get to work so they can just, oh, today what I'm going to do is I'm going to tweak Angie, because I'm really mad.

Joel Epstein:
So I'm going to tell her that she looks fat or something, I'm going to do something to piss her off because it's going to make me feel better. So people are dealing with a lot of negative stuff all the time and then, we don't even want to get in this, we could be here for nine hours, into cyber bullying and all kinds of ways that you can bully people. And you heard Angie Goff, who's sitting here with me, say, I'm not going to say old she is because we never say a lady's age, but she's coming up on, she's about to turn the crank on a pretty significant number in March. She was told something pretty harsh by somebody that was in a position of power, and basically had a slight, very small pity party and got over it.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
And worked through it. And I think that everybody can do that. When people say they can't do that I'm like, no, you can do that, you just have to look through.

Angie Goff:
Yes, you just have to dig deep. And then you also have to be realistic. I think you have to take a look at yourself and say, gosh, is this what I really want to do? And there's so many factors that weigh into the decision of who we think that we should be or want to be. You talked about the world moving faster than ever in this digital world and having so many ways to compare ourselves to others, whether it's through social media or just the-

Joel Epstein:
What is it, FOMO. [crosstalk 00:26:45] Fear of missing out.

Angie Goff:
Yes. Get rid of FOMO, you need JOMO, okay. You know JOMO.

Joel Epstein:
And JOMO is. Tell everyone.

Angie Goff:
What is JOMO.

Joel Epstein:
JOMAMA.

Angie Goff:
JOMAMA, I can't even remember what JOMO is. I just know it's better than FOMO.

Joel Epstein:
Yes. Well-

Angie Goff:
The joy of missing out on, that's what it is.

Joel Epstein:
Yes, [crosstalk 00:27:07] joy of missing out.

Angie Goff:
I knew it was something. I always tell ... See, this is an example of why I'm a hot mess, and I haven't had enough coffee. But JOMO, yes, the joy of missing out. But FOMO is one of the number one reasons I think I found myself saying yes to a lot of things when I really should have been saying no. When we talk about boundaries and that type of thing. People just don't want to miss out. They're afraid that there's not going to be another opportunity or their chances are going to come up next, and in this world-

Joel Epstein:
It always does.

Angie Goff:
It always does.

Joel Epstein:
It always does.

Angie Goff:
If you're good, and you work hard, and you surround yourself with good people, you're going to be okay. Things will come your way. And I think that, just to go back to what we were saying about the rat race that we're living in, and just comparing our lives to other people, one of the best pieces of advice I got when I was younger was from John Kelly, used to play football and then he was on TV.

Joel Epstein:
John Kelly quarterback Buffalo Bills.

Angie Goff:
Yes, and I think he played for Nebra-, no, did he play for Nebraska? Yes, I think so. And he was on TV. I don't know his football history, but he was out in LA and I remember I was complaining because we all see the people that don't work as hard-

Joel Epstein:
That's Jim Kelly. I said that wrong.

Angie Goff:
Jim Kelly, okay.

Joel Epstein:
Wrong person.

Angie Goff:
Jim Kelly, J Kelly, they're all the same. But we all find people in our industry who passes by whether they have more resources, or they just have more luck, and it's easy to let that beat you down and to feel like you're going nowhere. And that even though it is the process that you're part of very slow process, which I think is also something we need to remember is that it's still part of the process. And sometimes it's just not your turn, and that's something that's hard for people to accept.

Angie Goff:
And I remember he looked at me and he goes, Ang, every second you waste thinking about this person, is a second that you take away from yourself. And so I continuously have to tell that to myself, whether it's in broadcasting, whether it's in mothering, whether it is in broadcasting, whatever I'm doing, the moment I find myself starting to compare myself to others, and starting to feel inadequate, and like I'm not doing enough, I'm not moving fast enough, that is always a good reminder to me because it's a way to redeposit that energy into yourself and what you can do. And I really find that those mind games, as silly as they sound, they have really, really been a foundation I would say to my ability to keep striving, and keep going for the goal, and keeping the eye on the prize.

Joel Epstein:
It's right up there with, I tell people all the time when they're on the phone, to put a mirror in front of themselves, and watch themselves on the phone, are you smiling? Because they can hear it through the phone. They can see it, they can feel it through the phone whether you're smiling or not. And it's the same type of thing. I do it all the time, I have my clients write stuff down and I'm like, I want you to write this down, and I want you to keep it in front of you for at least a week. And I want you to read it every morning just to push through this because this is where we're going, not here, over here, you're getting there. This is definitely happening for you. Hundred percent. Get over it.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
Push through. Go through the wall. All right, so we were here, and we were there, we were here. How long have you been at Fox? How long you been back hometown?

Angie Goff:
I have been ... I get around, I don't know if you know this. I get around.

Joel Epstein:
So we've heard.

Angie Goff:
Yes. So, yes. So I was actually at Channel Nine when I came back, that's what got me home.

Joel Epstein:
Your at CBS.

Angie Goff:
Yes. So I went from LA to finally after a couple years getting a tape together while I was there working for Mark, I was also working at Pottery Barn to help pay bills and working at a cable station where I would go at night and cut tape so that I could create my tape so that I could get that job in Sioux City, Iowa, which is where I went next. And went to Sioux City, worked there, went to Columbia, South Carolina, and then I got the job offer to come to Channel Nine and do traffic, which I knew nothing about. But it was an opportunity to get back home and I saw it once again as a chance to get closer to my goal that was working back in the Washington DC area.

Joel Epstein:
Is that a dark hundred gig or [crosstalk 00:31:43].

Angie Goff:
Yes. Yes. So it was [crosstalk 00:31:45].

Joel Epstein:
5:00 AM traffic.

Angie Goff:
Yes. It eventually became 4:00 or 4:30 AM. And in addition to that, I was able to, because of the Union rules, I couldn't do news because I was under the traffic canopy. And so I found this thing called the internet, which I was already on. And this is when Twitter, and Instagram, and all that stuff just started to take off that it was a gray area and people didn't know much about it, and I started to use that. And anyone who knows about Twitter and how important that's become in the news cycle and how everybody's on it now, I remember that I started to use it because it was faster to update accidents around the Beltway on the Twitter account than to use just our website, right.

Angie Goff:
So I remember talking about it on television being like, follow me on Twitter, updating in real time, and I got called into the office and I got in trouble, or I got a tongue lashing in a nice way by the boss because, why are you talking about Twitter and pushing people to Twitter? you need to be pushing them to-

Joel Epstein:
How long ago was this? [crosstalk 00:32:57] I'm just curious. It was 10 years ago.

Angie Goff:
Yes. Yes, easily 10 years ago, or probably yes, about 10 years ago I would say. And I remember just banging my head against the wall just trying to explain and saying, this is a tool, this is faster, there's viewer benefit. And I feel like it's always been that uphill battle, but that was my loophole because then I went into blogging and I had a way to generate content through social media that I could put on the air and I would live stream. Everybody does Facebook live now but, I mean, I was dialing up, and using Ustream, and doing behind the scenes carrying around ... I mean, there's pictures of me carrying around this six pound laptop-

Joel Epstein:
So you just basically created your own show.

Angie Goff:
Yes, a show within a show, and it was fun because that was ... I needed that creative outlet. I mean, doing the traffic is fine, but it just wasn't enough and until I could take that next step, and get back into the new side of things, I had to do something. And that goes back to my whole thing, find a way. You got to find a way to do it. And so from there I was offered a job to join NBC. And I went over there and I worked seven years doing news, doing a lot of stuff with social media, it was great. But I hit that wall again where it just, I don't want to say it wasn't enough because it wasn't bad, but I just knew that I needed another avenue to create and to have freedom. And it was a really hard decision to walk away from something that was so secure, and walk away from people that I really liked, and a job I enjoyed, and to take a risk, and it was a painful decision.

Angie Goff:
I mean, anyone who is trying to find themselves again because this happens over and over in our lifespan, it was something that I didn't even talk to people about, I just kept it inside. And it wasn't until the day that I decided I was at peace with walking away, not knowing what was on the other side, but knowing that if I stayed, I was not going to be comfortable. Once I came to that realization, it was a whole new freedom, I was liberated. And I feel like I was born again in a sense, and that's where the podcast came from. And it's the happiest I've been in a long time.

Joel Epstein:
At Fox, with the podcast, doing your thing.

Angie Goff:
Yes, and the foxing came after. I mean, that's the thing. It's so funny, because there were other news opportunities that came along the way, right.

Joel Epstein:
Would you have had to moved?

Angie Goff:
Yes. I mean, some of the opportunities that were put out there to entertain, some were here and it was weird how it all worked out because when I left I was like, listen, I want to block news out, and I want to focus just on this. I want to focus on my baby, and plus I was trying to write ... I wrote a couple little kids books, and so I got a writing coach, and it was just a real great time. I mean, I wasn't getting paid or anything. I mean, my husband probably has a different a different opinion about it. And he called it a personal shut down. He was like, when is this thing going to end. But he was always really, really supportive because he knew that inside that this was the only way I was going to figure it out. And I was going to be happy.

Angie Goff:
And the thing is, I still wanted to work. And I will say that it's probably the hardest I've ever worked because when you do, like you said, it's not even work, it's when you do things that you really care about, you're not clocking in the hours, you're not looking to see if you took a lunch break. You are willing to compromise your social life and sometimes even sadly, your family life for the cause and for what you believe in. And to me, I just feel so grateful that I was able to find that. Even though I don't know where it's going to go, even though I still have days that I wake up and I'm like, I'm exhausted, what am I doing? Is this right? Was this risk worth taking?

Angie Goff:
I said this when I left NBC-

Joel Epstein:
How long was the break NBC to Fox?

Angie Goff:
It was probably about seven months, and it could have gone longer. But then when Fox came and they wanted to start a new show, and they said that I would be able to be part of the creative part of it, and that it was going to be different than just your average run of the mill news show of blood and guts, I had to take that into consideration. And then the like it or not one is a fun one, which I like to do with my friends anyways, just talk about fun things, and topical things, and have opinion and conversation that was engaging to me. So, I entertained that idea and it seemed like a perfect fit especially with the fact that they are so progressive with digital, and with podcasting. The boss there he has his own podcast which to me was amazing. I thought that was great.

Joel Epstein:
The boss at Fox Five has his own podcast?

Angie Goff:
He has his own podcast. He does every week. And to me that ... I mean, I was like this just seems like a seamless and effortless no brainer.

Joel Epstein:
You're doing all the things you like already.

Angie Goff:
Yes. But all of that came the moment I let go and I had no idea how it was all going to come together. And thankfully, I have a lot of creative brains, good friends, my CO is Brittany, she's amazing. Oscar Lavey who's been a cheerleader all the way. And then my bosses at Fox who check in with me and want to know my opinion. I mean, it is so different when you work for someone who really wants to know how things are going, what more can we do, that is something that I was not used to and it's made all the difference. And I think when you start to play up to people's strengths, that's what's important. You need to be somewhere where people appreciate what you have to offer and the strengths that you have to offer.

Joel Epstein:
And if they don't, I get asked this question all the time, it's a bad boss question, and I was like, okay, leave.

Angie Goff:
Leave.

Joel Epstein:
And they're like, wait a minute, what do you mean? I'm like, so you just said, about the workplace, about your boss, about all that and I'm telling you to leave. They're like, yes, but I need the job. I'm like, okay, then let's walk back through all the things you just said. Did you lie about any of them? Let's walk through them. If these are all your truths, you're out.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
What do you mean? I'm like, you will find another place. All right, so, I'm looking at the clock. [crosstalk 00:39:46] They're going to wave at me. So let me just ask you because you get to meet lots of cool people and you see lots of cool things. So, what in the world of just ego monstery in DC right now, I mean, what do you see in the ego monster realm? [crosstalk 00:40:09] Who is just off the chain right now?

Angie Goff:
Off the chain. Just off the chain.

Joel Epstein:
Off the chain, not off the chain, yes, what do you think?

Angie Goff:
No. Is it bad that I don't let any of that ... I tend [crosstalk 00:40:31].

Joel Epstein:
I'll tell you a story. I'll tell you a funny story.

Angie Goff:
I let a lot roll off my back.

Joel Epstein:
When I wrote this book, the PR people, and the people doing all the book tours, and all the crap they're like, okay, you need to be controversial. I'm like, what do you mean? You need to be very controversial. And I said, okay, keep going. And they're like, you need to really if someone is being a jackass, you need to really let them have it like when you're doing media or whatever. I'm like but my book says not to do that. I wrote a book about not doing that.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
So you're telling me that you want me to do that? They're like, yes, Joel, if you do that, you'll blow up. You'll be on all kinds of different things because you'll be controversial. I'm like, but I-

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
So, they would call me all the time to go on all these different shows because of course, you know this Angie, I'm not sure if you know this but if you write a book, you're the expert. I don't know if [crosstalk 00:41:29] you've learnt that or not yet but you don't make any money from these things, but they're your brochure.

Angie Goff:
[crosstalk 00:41:37] But it's street cred.

Joel Epstein:
Exactly.

Angie Goff:
This is street cred, right.

Joel Epstein:
Exactly. So they'll call me, you're the ego expert, We need to have you on here and ask questions. And what they were waiting for me to do is to blast the person that I was talking about basically for being a jackass or being a ego monster, and I wasn't doing it.

Angie Goff:
Why?

Joel Epstein:
And so after ... I wasn't doing it because, in my book, it says that there are no big egos, there's no small egos, there's no crushed egos, there's no inflated or deflated egos, ego is a ball of energy. And what it's all about is when information hits the ball, what's going to happen? You can have positive friction or negative friction, and my company is called, Friction Factor. And what's going to happen? Positive friction is something that creates an incredible idea, something really cool happens, something gets built. Negative friction burns the whole house down. You're in a meeting, someone has an idea, and someone can go, that is the dumbest idea I've ever heard in my life. Then the person that heard that is like, really? Yes, you're dumb. Really, nice shoes.

Joel Epstein:
Whatever is going on, and the whole meeting is over, the tables on fire, everyone is going at it, it's over. Or, hey, that's a pretty interesting idea, I didn't think of that, tell me how that works. Okay. That would be positive friction. Well, when you Tell someone that they have a bad idea, and they hear it the wrong way, they're going to get defensive, they're going to get pissed because your, I call them your information traffic cop who's sitting in your ear, we don't have enough time to go through all this in the book. If he's asleep, okay, and it gets to your pride, and your pride says, oh no, you're not going to tell me I'm a dummy, no way. Right away, right back.

Joel Epstein:
So, when people get portrayed in the media, everyone from the top of the house all the way down, to being an ego monster or whatever, I always have to think to myself, are they really? There's this extremely fine line between confidence and arrogance, okay. Arrogance is just confidence but you have this little, like your eyes are closed, it's that close.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
Is the person really being arrogant or are they confident and did what they say piss you off? And because of that, your first reaction is, he has a big ego. Well wait a minute, does he really have a big ego or did he just know the answer, or she, know the answer you didn't and you're pissed? Therefore, okay, so Angie is an ego monster. Okay, Angie is arrogant, whatever, because you knew the answer. Well, no, Angie is confident because she knew the answer. So just because you heard it like that, and that's what the big message in my book is that you can't control anyone but yourself.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
So to think, even though on the front cover it says, how to manage and control the ego monsters, I have a lot of things in here to help you, but the bottom line is at the end, they're going to do what they're going to do, they're going to be who they're going to be. There's a lot of things you can do to cool, and soothe, and put out on it, but the reality of it is you're not in their head. You don't know what's going on in their head. You don't know if they just got served divorce papers or just got diagnosed with a very rare disease. You don't know what is going on that's making them do what they do.

Joel Epstein:
So it was always interesting for me even to watch you answer that question, it's interesting because that's my answer. I'm like, well, I ... I mean, you could call this person ... I'll never forget when they had me on I think it was Access Hollywood I remember when Paris Hilton was going through all of her stuff. And so they flew me out to LA, and they put me on Access Hollywood to talk about Paris Hilton because of course, I'm the ego master, right? And so they were asking me all these questions and they wanted me to really hammer her for what she said. And I said, I don't really know her. I don't know what was going on in her head. I don't know whether they cut clips or I don't know whether they made it into what she said. And then the only thing I did say is I said, it does seem like she might need an egovention, but I'm not quite sure.

Joel Epstein:
And it was funny because I never got invited back because I wasn't going to go with that little jackass, I can't believe she said that. And it was it was funny but asking you that question and watching you try to answer it is like when people ask me, which is good.

Joel Epstein:
So I want to just recap a little bit. I'm sure they're waving at us in there, but I can't see because it's dark and honestly, we don't care. A couple of big takeaways from Angie Goff, and by the way, we're going to do this again because we missed a whole bunch of stuff that will be valuable for everyone watching this, I know, okay. Angie, just real quick before I wrap your Instagram, how do they follow you on Instagram?

Angie Goff:
Sure. And it's real simple. It's just Oh My Goff.

Joel Epstein:
Oh My G-O-F-F.

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
On got Instagram.

Angie Goff:
Oh My G-O-F-F on Instagram, Oh My-

Joel Epstein:
It's everywhere, right.

Angie Goff:
If you got to ohmygoff.com, you can just watch or [crosstalk 00:46:37].

Joel Epstein:
That'll take you everywhere.

Angie Goff:
Yes, everywhere.

Joel Epstein:
Okay. And so a big message today for everyone, a couple of really big messages, A, you got to be passionate about what you're doing. There's people coming to me, people watching this right now, yes, I'm looking right at you. You have come to me and you have complained about your job or about hating this or hating that, and I would ask you to check your passion, check it and sit down and really check it. Are you really passionate about what you're doing? Number one, that's a big huge one.

Joel Epstein:
The other thing Angie talked about, which is, I didn't even think about before you came on because lots of people like you really have the same story. You got to be patient, and know what you want, and not scared to work really hard for what you want, and not scared to do any job. I've noticed that very successful people, if you look at their career, they've done any job. Now, the really successful ones, while they were doing any job, they had their little eye on a little prize way up on a hill somewhere. They knew they were eventually going to get to that hill, they weren't just doing it to do it. They knew if I do this, then this is going to happen, then that's going to happen, then that's going to happen. And it's all based on self confidence because they knew they would do a good job at any job, sweep the floor, no problem, it'll be the cleanest floor in here. Bring me coffee, you'll have coffee every five minutes. Whatever it is, you'll do it the best.

Angie Goff:
When I was anchoring and in Sioux City, Iowa, because I was making no money, I was waiting tables on ... I worked seven days a week. I waited tables at the country club and then I would serve the city leaders that I spent my week trying to take down. I'd be like, Rancher Caesar. And I just remember turning around and swallowing my pride [crosstalk 00:48:17]. Yes, they did say that. But here we are in Sioux City, Iowa and I'm like, yes, I'm in the news. But I knew ... And I remember walking away and swallowing my pride that I had to serve same city leaders that I was trying to get down during the week as a city reporter. But I knew, like you said, that this is going to eventually ... This is what I have to do now to make ends meet, so that I can be here and do the job I want to do, that's going to get me closer to my goal.

Joel Epstein:
So, I mean, really strong message today, and this is cool, and I love having Angie in the studio, and I'm going to have her back because we probably left off, what, 96% of the cool stuff that we could talk about, and I didn't even get to reach into the adult toy bin and I'll be honest [crosstalk 00:49:04], I'm slightly scared to go into toy bin. I don't know what's in the toy bin. Do I need to wear a glove? Okay. Do I get to keep that if I pick it or? I mean, that's cool.

Angie Goff:
I have two.

Joel Epstein:
Look, it's The Big Joel color. I mean, look.

Angie Goff:
It is. It's perfect. You should sell these.

Joel Epstein:
It's a fart sound.

Angie Goff:
I'm sure you can-

Joel Epstein:
Yes, I know a fourth grader that'd be very happy with that right now. Yes, he's at the dentist hating life right now. So, everyone, thank you so much for watching, listening, again, you can consume The Big Joel show on any podcast medium that you like. I hope you love this show. Please leave comments. Again. We know how to find Angie, Oh My Goff, G-O-F-F, you can also find her at four o'clock today. And then when's the next show? The next show ... When is the Like It or Not? [crosstalk 00:49:54] That's a 7:00, right?

Angie Goff:
Yes.

Joel Epstein:
Is that on the net, by the way? Can people watch it on the internet?

Angie Goff:
Yes, FoxfiveDC.com/live and you can watch any of these shows live as they happen Eastern Time, 7:00 PM Eastern, and then Facebook Live at 4:00 PM.

Joel Epstein:
So if you like what Angie had to say and you want to see her in action or what we call Angie in the wild, you can log in and watch it no matter where you are. So, again, thank you so much for watching and listening. And another great edition of The Big Joel show bye, bye.

Angie Goff:
Yu better not cut the fart gun out.

Joel Epstein:
We will not. Josh cut the fart gun and you're in trouble.

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